The Great Mate Debate

Posted by: Lindley Arthur
Topic: So many people are using technology to capture their lives – from camera phones to YouTube, My Space, and Facebook – that the idea of living a “private life” is changing. What impact do you think this will have on relationships in the future?

There’s no doubt, technology is changing the way we meet and communicate with people. The numbers speak for themselves. More than 185 million people are members of My Space. Facebook has at least 25 million members. And the cell phone companies report that 18.5 billion text messages are sent every month.

Embarrassing as it is to admit, I just found out about My Space a few months ago. My friends convinced me to set up a page so I could share pictures of Leighton. I’ve got it up, but its bare bones – I don’t have a clue how to add music. And text messaging? It takes me at least five minutes to send a one-liner. I suppose I should try and figure it all out, but the fact is, I’m an old fashioned girl who loves her land line and answering machine.

That being said, I do see the benefits of technology on relationships. My Space and Facebook allow us to meet people, and do a “background check” on someone we’re interested in.  Text messaging provides a convenient, less intimidating way to contact someone. And like Aly said, long distance relationships are “easier” thanks to Web cams and digital pics.

I have to say, the old fashioned girl in me is a little wary of relying too much on technology. I worry that it’s almost too convenient – and by using it solely, we can miss the experience of really getting to know someone firsthand. My Space is a great, but a person can represent themselves any way they want. I don’t know if simply looking at someone’s self-created page is the best way to judge their character. And personally, I think text messaging is a little too easy. It’s hard to really get the full communication experience without hearing the emotion is someone’s voice

Don’t get me wrong, I think technology is a great tool, but I still think it’s important to communicate personally, and take the time to get to know someone face to face rather than just on the screen in front of you.

Posted by: Vix the Over-Educated Nympho
Topic: So many people are using technology to capture their lives – from camera phones to YouTube, MySpace, and Facebook – that the idea of living a “private life” is changing. What impact do you think this will have on relationships in the future?

Blogging can make one's dating life very messy. Starting new relationships is that much more difficult when a guy can Google you and and read your latest blog entry about the date you two had last night, including how he's a great kisser but maaaaan his breath was rank.

I am regularly amazed at how many people have Myspace accounts and blogs under their full/real name. Sex aside, I'd be scared of doing that even if the only thing I blogged about was my love of flavored croutons.

When it is so easy to be Googled by a prospective boyfriend, parent, boss--it requires that much extra care and forethought to protect one's privacy and identity. My own mother recently admitted to Googling me and my brothers to see if she could find anything "interesting." What happened to the good ol' days of searching under the bed in hopes of finding a diary?

For anyone who finds or knows your blog, he can spend his sweet time reading the inner-workings of your mind as well as how you like to masturbate before you've even gone on a first date. I've been there (just because you only tell a few people about your blog it doesn't mean they won't pass it around), which leaves the relationship dynamics severely lopsided from the beginning. Is it cheating before a date to spend hours reading someone's blog when he doesn't even know what your last name is? Isn't half the fun of meeting new people finding out--in their own words--how they came to be the person they are now?

It's one thing to blog about some random guy you saw/boinked once, it's something else entirely to write about someone you're in a relationship with. For the guys who pass by in the night, it is highly unlikely they would ever connect an anonymous blog with that girl he met two years ago.

With a boyfriend however, it seems that one ought to disclose her cyber persona in the name of "open communication" and not being single forever.

Eventually a new boyfriend will get suspicious when his girlfriend regularly disappears for an hour every night behind her computer screen. That brings up a whole series of questions about blogging and dating etiquette:

• Is it okay to write about the (dirty) details of someone you go out with once?
• Should you tell someone you're dating that you blog about him when you've been dating for a while but don't know yet if it's serious?
• When do you tell someone you're dating that you blog about him?
• ...and, um, have been blogging about him for a while now....
• Is it okay to write about someone if you never say anything bad?
• Is it unfair to tell someone you're dating that you blog about him and then ask him not to read it?
• What material is fair-game and what is off-limits when in a serious relationship?
• Are the so-called rules different for a short-term relationship?
• How personal is too personal when you're writing about someone else, especially if the other person is unaware of it?
• Is it reasonable to ask (and expect) him to only read parts of the blog?
• How can someone not resent you if you're more personal in a blog than you are in person?
• Does asking for privacy regarding a public blog lead to distrust and resentment in the relationship?

For the first year of my blog's existence, I was in a serious long-term relationship. Of course I wanted to respect by boyfriend's privacy, which meant I rarely wrote about our sex life and when I did there were no specifics. To hit the sexy quota for the blog I wrote about my past sex life. A word of advice: when your boyfriend occasionally reads your blog, that can lead to some long explanations (and some long spells without sex).

The relationship thing definitely effected what I did and didn't write about because there was always the possibility that he would read it. Why have a blog when you're watching every word you say? How can you talk openly when you have to censor yourself so you don't blog yourself into singledom?

I know I am not the only one out there writing explicit details about my physical and emotional experiences, which leaves me wondering what the hell am I going to do when I start seriously dating someone? There are some very open-minded people out there, but open-minded enough to accept seeing the details of one's daily life written up for all the world to read?

My solution... can I get away with never ever mentioning the blog to someone I'm dating? Hopefully my future boyfriend will believe me when I tell him that I spend three hours a night locked in the bathroom because I have severe Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

Posted by: Margo Z
Topic: So many people are using technology to capture their lives – from camera phones to YouTube, MySpace, and Facebook – that the idea of living a “private life” is changing. What impact do you think this will have on relationships in the future?

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and signing onto AOL cost $5.95 an hour, I found myself divorced and dumped back onto the dating scene for the first time in over a decade.  Trolling for potential mates online was the brave new world back then.  I was living alone in an urban area and determined to take all possible safety precautions.  I got a nonpublished number and installed a caller I.D. blocker on my phone.  Anyone I met online or through a newspaper personal got ONLY my first name until I'd actually had a date with them and satisfied myself they weren't a serial killer.  If I decided to go out with them a second time, they got my last name and home phone number.  Everyone I dated respected those boundaries and seemingly had no problem with them.

Except for this one guy... a self-professed geek extraordinaire... who had gleaned enough bits and pieces of information about me from our initial phone call that he was able to do a World Wide Web search (did Google even exist back then?) and unearth not only my last name but an accounting of my career accomplishments to date.  He wouldn't accept "I'd rather not give out my full contact information until we meet and see if we like each other" for an answer.  In his mind, I'd thrown down the gauntlet.  Imagine my horror when we sat down for coffee and he proceeded to crow triumphantly that he had broken through my ridiculous privacy barrier, easily, quickly, and without my knowledge.

Needless to say, this wasn't a romance that blossomed.  I was offended, dismayed, and frankly a bit shaken up by the experience.  I was like: what is this guy's problem?  Why would he refuse to respect my wishes?  Did he think I would be so impressed at his online sleuthing skills that I'd fall madly in love on the first date? 

Fast forward ten plus years.  Now... when I see the kinds of things the "kids" out there are posting, my first thought is, "Where the hell are their parents?!"  The second thing I think is, do they truly not realize the kind of danger they are exposing themselves to from predators?  Not to mention all the merriment that would ensue if their online antics were seen by a potential employer or college admissions officer.

And the third thing I think is... damn, grrrl.  You are gettin' OLD! 

Posted by: Dr. Helen Fisher
Topic: So many people are using technology to capture their lives – from camera phones to YouTube, MySpace, and Facebook – that the idea of living a “private life” is changing. What impact do you think this will have on relationships in the future?

When you are in love with someone you generally wants to merge entirely with him or her. Milton expressed this perfectly in Paradise Lost when Adam says to Eve, “We are one,/ One flesh; to lose thee were to lose myself." Secrets are distancing. But when you reveal too much in a very public place, such as Youtube or My Space, you risk showing sides of yourself that may backfire in the future, jeopardizing a friendship, a love affair, a marriage, or even a career. So we walk a fine line between what we reveal and what we keep to ourselves.

That said, the concept of living a “private life” is new in human history. For millions of years our forebears traveled in little hunting and gathering bands and everyone knew just about everything about everybody else. So this current impulse to share our lives is far more natural than the inclination for privacy.

Which reminds me of the moment I came to realize how uncommon the “private life” really is. I had been invited to be a speaker on a “Discovery Cruise” through Indonesia, hosted by the American Museum of Natural History in New York. For three weeks I was obliged to live in a tiny room on the ship, with someone I had never met, and travel continually in a group of some 150 people. As I live alone and work alone, I was bracing myself. But I quickly merged into the group. And when I returned to my apartment, I suddenly realized that I had been on a remarkable vacation—from Helen, from “self.” As part of the group, I had not had time to engage in my continual internal dialogue.

So although I enjoy living my “private life,” I don’t think that this is necessarily natural. And I don’t think that sharing one’s “self ” will have any monumental impact on most relationships of tomorrow.

Posted by: Sherry Amatenstein
Topic: Let’s look at the cougar phenomenon – older women with younger men: What makes this pairing so powerful?

The reason I'm writing about cougars this week while my esteemed fellow and female posters are deep into as Evan put it, technology, evil is due to - shock of shocks! - a technology glitch. I never got the e-memo informing me this week's topic was changed. We're given debate topics a month out and cougars was on the original line-up.  The email sent to my box telling me of the change apparently went bouncy, bounce. As do many relationships that start strong in the cyber-world and crash and burn once they become real.

So - back to cougars!

Isn't this subject getting a little, well, long in the tooth? Guess if anything could have ended the non-ending media interest in this ‘phenomenon’ it would have been the cringe-inducing reality show Age of Love pitting cougars against kittens, AKA 20-something chickies. The “prize” - a 31-year-old supposed stud. I never saw the show, only promos which precipitated aforementioned cringing.  So if anyone knows which side won – or is that lost? – please post, along with your opinion of the result.

And yeah, call me a hypocrite. I’ve added to the madness by writing about cougars (the term also refers to pumas or mountain lions traditionally known as stalk-and-ambush predators) for my more.com dating column.   My bully pulpit rationale: www.more.com’s audience is women over 40 so the topic is germane rather than gratuitous. But hurl those brickbats if you must.

It’s true these passion pairings are increasingly common: A 2003 survey conducted by the National Association of Retired Persons revealed that one-third of single women between 40 and 60 are dating younger men. And that’s fine. No quarrels. Let freedom ring. As long as it’s not another Mary Kay LeTourneau type seducing her 13-year-old student I say vive l’amour.

The match to my flame is that older men/younger women couplings still create barely a ripple, while the sight of a woman in her prime snuggled up to a lad who barely remembers life before the Internet brings on guffaws, snorts and even ridicule. And while most geezers appear thrilled to be seen with arm candy, many women of a certain age wish they had a sack over their head when out in public with a young paramour, so deep is their discomfort. Society didn’t excoriate 81-year-old Tony Bennett for marrying a 48-year-old hottie, but if an older woman doesn’t look like Demi Moore, she’ll be verbally assailed for ‘going after’ Ashton Kutcher.

I’ll close with another cringe inducer: websites like www.dateolderwomen.com, www.gocougar.com and www.intergenerational.net that exist to seduce women into actively trolling for fresh meat.  Can’t we allow attraction to just happen, and the age (or color or religious or socioeconomic or whatever) disparity between two people be viewed not as a social impropriety but as simple, unassailable, almost unimportant fact?

Posted by: Evan Marc Katz
Topic: Technology, Evil

Ah, the kids these days with their hi-fi and rock and roll music.

Seems that people have always complained about the advent of change. The older generation avoids embracing and incorporating technology; the younger generation can't imagine living without it. It'€™s a long-running debate whether all of this improves our lives, and there's no one right answer. But as a guy who could be considered the online dating poster child, I'd have to say that I absolutely, positively think that technology is BAD for relationships.

Make no mistake, online dating was inevitable. With more single people and more computers than ever before, it makes perfect sense. Thousands of folks who never would have met owe their happiness to cyber-dating. Yet I can only conclude that our computer-based isolation has changed the way we communicate for the worse. MySpace and Facebook may be compelling ways to express ourselves through graphic art, music, and garish pictures of strangers in tight T-shirts, but there's no denying that our connections are tenuous. Friendship doesn't mean friendship on MySpace. It means you think someone's photo is hot. Or you like their album. What percentage of your friends do you actually know on a site like that? Among the medium's biggest proponents, the number is woefully low.

And this isn't just me being prudish. There is a negative qualitative difference in HOW we communicate online. Email and text has loosened our ability to spell, use complete sentences, or write fluidly. Hell, anyone who's ever had a meaningful relationship discussion over email knows that it'€™s a terrible idea. Email is great if you want to set a meeting, not if you want to discuss €œwhere your relationship is going€. Yet clients tell me how they've been dumped via text message, or were unceremoniously blocked from someone'€™s MySpace page. This is the wave of the future?

Once upon a time, I was a counselor at a summer camp in upstate New York, I remember trying to get the twelve-year-olds out to the softball field and being met with resistance. Why? Because they were all playing on their Nintendo Gameboys and didn't want to go outside. I remember being instantly saddened - at age 18 - that the simple pleasures of my childhood had already been replaced by technology. Today, being able to sing (and comment on singing) on YouTube has taken the place of eye contact, and manners, and basic social skills. No, they're not lost forever, but they'€™re certainly taking a hit.

As Aly pointed out, the virtues of technology are many. Most obviously, technology is an amazing tool which allows us to instantaneously stay in touch with hundreds of people all over the globe.

But go look through a box of your mother's love letters and ask yourself if we're truly better off.

Posted by: Aly Walansky
Topic: So many people are using technology to capture their lives – from camera phones to YouTube, MySpace, and Facebook – that the idea of living a “private life” is changing. What impact do you think this will have on relationships in the future?

I think the Internet has created a new type of relationship, on every level.

For instance, this weekend, I attended two Halloween events populated by great masses of my near and dear. Upon return home yesterday, my first act was uploading my digital photos, creating an online album for them on MySpace and Facebook, and then sharing the link in my iChat status menu.

Later that night, I fiddled with creating a video montage of said photos on One True Media while my camera sat nestled beside me, charging up to be on the ready for whatever fun and events pop up this week.

As a writer/blogger by trade, I am very married to cyber culture. I exist in a universe where I seldom call even those I love the most, and instead engage in epic IMs, emails, and text messages. Some of my most meaningful relationships over the last decade have been cultivated with IM chats and email threads.

Once upon a time, such an existence would be considered anti-social, but the cyber medium is the new popular society. And while this may change the landscape of privacy, it doesn't change our right to have it, or expect it.

I read recently that people have been known to Google perspective dates before investing any further time into them. Rumor has it potential employers do this as well, by the way. Is this any different than asking around for info on someone of interest? Perhaps it's just more efficient. We can now do a search and find out if someone has any embarrassing YouTube videos, any salicious social network platforms, or perhaps even if they are not who they say they are.

Of course, they can find out that about you, as well.

I think that the existence of the information superhighway can, indeed, change relationships - especially i you have something to hide. But it can also add a whole new dimension of fun to them. Does your mate travel a lot for business? If you have a web cam and a fun imagination, there's limitless possibilities that await, no matter how many miles are between you. And with IMing, Internet Phone, digital photos, and email, long-distance relationships become increasingly easier (and less expensive!) to cope with.

I have a friend who has a fiance who lives in the Midwest, she works and lives in New York City. They GChat daily -- it's even how they are planning their wedding! And I'm sure most of you reading know stories of couples who found love on Internet dating sites - something that, too, evolved out of the use of technology to capture our lives.

The Internet may be changing our relationships, but it's also creating a whole new realm possible for them. And whether you are a mom using email to keep in touch with your kids or a single playing online for needs ranging from eBay to cyber-Scrabble, it's the next-generation of happy hour socials and intimate coffee chats - no dress-up required.

Posted by: Evan Marc Katz
Topic: Why do men hate it when women ask, “What are you thinking…?”

Sometimes it’s great to be the only guy on the panel.

This is not one of those times.

Because I have to admit, there’s definitely some hypocrisy being exhibited by men here.

We get annoyed when you expect us to read your mind, and we get pissed off when you ask us what we’re thinking. What’s a woman to do? Aren’t relationships all about communication?

Yes. Yes, they are. Which is why one of woman’s greatest challenges is to figure out how to talk to her guy.

A man could nail his foot to the floor when building a deck, or drive two hours off course before he asks for directions, but he’s usually going to do things his way, dammit! This general obstinacy and cluelessness is difficult to contend with if you’re his partner. Because while you’re just asking, “Um, where are we going?”, he’s hearing, “Stop telling me what to do!”

This leaves communicative women in quite a quandary. You want to feel connected; he just wants to be left alone until he’s ready to speak. Problem is that you’re not going to get a guy to speak until he’s ready to speak.

Which is why “What are you thinking right now?” is the worst of all questions. There’s no subtlety, no nuance, no attempt at even engaging him in a related topic to get him to open up.

As Linda Holmes, my co-author in “Why You’re Still Single”, makes an excellent point in a chapter called “My Ear Is Numb”. “Emotionally substantive conversations with men,” she said, “work best as low-pressure, straightforward, not necessarily linear events…While you have the right to ask a guy to sit down and have a conversation on your terms, you should also be willing to talk the way guys often talk with each other; that is, while doing other things.” She suggests that Nintendo and backyard hoops were both invented so that men could talk about their feelings. I would have to agree.

Put another way: A man can’t just go up to a woman and ask her to have sex. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with wanting to have sex; it’s that the approach is blunt and ungainly. The same issue arises with a direct question like “What are you thinking?” Women need to time to warm up in bed, men need time to warm up to discuss their innermost thoughts.

Approach your relationship discussions with subtlety and stealth, and you might both get what you want.

Posted by: Vix the Over-Educated Nympho
Topic: Why do men hate it when women ask, “What are you thinking…?”

Don't assume it's always the girl asking the question and it's always the guy ducking an answer to save his delicate manhood, similar to what Sherry posted earlier. As a chick who identifies more easily with the typical guy role in a relationship, I know how cornered he may feel in this situation as his mind desperately seeks (and can't find) the correct answer.

I know what I feel like saying in that situation: If I wanted you to know what I was thinking, I would tell you.

That means if I don't want to tell you what I'm thinking, it's because it either makes me look bitchy, mean, or dumb. Or vain. Or a little emo. Best to keep those thoughts to myself, otherwise I would have even fewer friends.

You want to know what I'm thinking about? Really? Because if you ask a loaded question like that, don't be surprised when I raise my guns of passive-aggression right back at you. I have been in enough relationships and enough fights to know that "what are you thinking?" (or its sister statement, "is everything okay?") is much bigger and more complex than four such simple words would suggest. What the inquiring person really means is "are you thinking what I think you're thinking? Because if you are thinking what I think you're thinking, I'm concerned and I think we should talk about what you think you're thinking." No one ever walks out of one of those fully intact.

Much like Amy said in her post, don't ask if you aren't ready to hear the honest answer. Do you really want to know how many of my thoughts have to do with sexually objectifying men who are way hotter than you?

Don't worry, it's not always bad. Sometimes the response "nothing" honestly means nothing, at least nothing worth talking about. What would you think if I told you that the voice in my head was singing "Feliz Cumpleaños" with a bad British accent?

Then again there are the times when "nothing" means "nothing but bad things." Are you ready to go there? This is not the best way to get someone to open up and talk about feelings, especially if they are of the "we need to talk" variety.

Sometimes a person just doesn't feel like talking, whether because of a bad day at the office, a foul mood that has nothing to do with the other person, or happily lost in one's own thoughts. As an avid daydreamer, I can vouch for that last one. Why is it so hard to just let someone be?

For those concerned loved ones who are seeking validation, is it not enough validation that your significant other chooses to be around you day after day, even if there are bouts of silence? If you're feeling a little concerned about the status of your relationship, ask for a hug instead. A hug is a smoother step toward an "us" discussion without tripping over the implications of a loaded question.

Advice to those who have an itch to ask "what are you thinking?" in spite of the caution above: don't keep asking the same question in an attempt to get the answer you want (which probably won't be an honest answer, but a combination of words whose sole purpose is to get you to leave the respondent the hell alone) to an issue that may or may not be what you think it is.

Avoidance or dismissal of the question does not necessarily have anything to do with your significant other's poor tortured inner soul, because there are many other things it could be. Like trying to remember the name of the actor who played that guy in that movie with the sheep and the eighties music soundtrack, because the chick in that movie was super hot.

Have I been talking too much? My apologies. Let's move on. What are you thinking, babycakes?

Posted by: Aly Walansky
Topic: Why do men hate it when women ask, “What are you thinking…?”

This question is very interesting to me because I am notorious for asking it, and getting in trouble for doing so.

Case in point: Male in my life appears to be acting less friendly and interested in conversation. I ask, "Why are you acting weird? What's going on?" Said male will, inevitably, respond by first commencing to act weird. Problem, conflict, and fight are perpetuated. Our insecurities are self-manifesting. And this is something we all do, knowing the results, and yet, somehow expecting some great communication in roads.

Men do not like such questions, they just do not. And asking them is simply akin to requesting a communication shut-down.

I think in relationships, we have long ago discovered that not only do we create our own path to destiny, but we seem to have a knack for throwing in as many potholes and traffic jams as possible along the way.

As my co-panelists have all pointed out as well, men and women are wired differently. While my close gal pals and I can sit for hours over a glass of wine and discuss our thoughts and feelings to the point of minutia, guys will start to feel like they are being placed under the inquisition and as a form of defense, fight it.

And thus why "What are you thinking?" is such a bad question to ask. (Unless in the context of play, that is. Then they are all for it.)

I have a friend who is notorious in our circle for analyzing her relationships to the point of obsessiveness. A single conversation or email can result in 4-hour-vent-fests with all her friends, one by one, until her voice gives out. Said friend has a tendency to do this with men, as well. As a result, she can't seem to keep them very long. Of course, we as women have the right to share our feelings, and attempt to better understand the feelings of with those whom we are involved. But when it comes down to a brow-beating attempt to find out the inner meaning of the slightest glance or delayed phone call, it could be going too far. No one likes mistrust or paranoia, and very often the "What are you thinking?" question goes right to the jugular.

As Lindley pointed out, over-examination can ruin a good thing. And then you'll just have nothing left to examine. Except loneliness, which sucks a lot more than wondering what is up with your mate's mind today.

Men are, indeed, wired differently. Sometimes we don't understand them. Very often, we don't even want to.